Ep. 4 | Understanding the GNM Framework with Dr. Chris Cole
Register for our upcoming event with today's guest, Dr. Chris Cole: An Intro to GNM. (Free for members, $33 for non-members).
In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Chris Cole, a Vitalist Chiropractor from Dallas, TX, who is integrating German New Medicine (GNM) into his practice. Dr. Chris shares his philosophy that our bodies are guided by an innate intelligence, with a vital life force that directs healing. He explains how GNM offers a new lens for understanding the mind-body connection and how it can enhance chiropractic care.
Dr. Chris will also be hosting an "Intro to GNM" event in our membership space next week—tune in to learn more about how this knowledge can empower individuals on their healing journey and help them reconnect with their inner vitality.
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Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not provide medical advice. Always consult a qualified professional before making health decisions.
Transcript:
Ellen: Hello and welcome to the German New Medicine Collective Podcast. This is Ellen. And today I am here with Dr. Chris Cole. Dr. Chris Cole is a vitalist chiropractor in Dallas, Texas, and owner of Rhythm Chiropractic. In his private practice, chiropractic practice and studio, Dr. Chris supports families and individuals in creating greater connection with their bodies.
Ellen: Living innately and bringing conscious attention to the connection between symptoms and lived experiences through the G and M framework and vitalist, vitalistic orientation to life. Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Chris, it's so nice to have you.
Chris: me. Yeah. Thank you for having me.
Ellen: Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to for this conversation in lieu of, um, if y'all are listening for anyone who's listening right now, um, Dr.
Ellen: Chris is going to be hosting an intro to G and M event for us and our member space next week, February 24th. So. If you're a member of the Mighty Network space, you can have access to this call, and then, um, there will also be an option to just purchase a ticket for the call, as well as if you want to join with a free trial and see what the GNM Collective is all about, um, you're welcome to do that as well.
Ellen: Um, and so, yeah, Dr. Chris, it's great to have you, and I'm excited to dive in today. Um, I'd love to hear just a little bit about you and, um. Yeah, your journey to the work that you do now.
Chris: Yeah, thank you. Um, where to begin? I am a chiropractor. I'm five years into practice. And I guess thinking back, um, just how I came into Germany medicine. school, this whole kind of concept or idea that there's this inherent innate intelligence of the body really struck me from very early on in chiropractic school.
Chris: Um, had gone into my program thinking I, you know, wanted to work with athletes or do more like sports. Medicine type work. And, I had a couple of experiences towards the end of my first year that just totally changed what I thought I knew about healing, spirituality, the body, the unseen, all of it really just shifted very drastically and. Maybe halfway through chiropractic school back in I don't know 2018 or 2019 was the first time I had heard about Germany medicine Maybe somebody had shared something on Instagram and I was like, oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense It was very much like oh, yeah that totally resonates. And so I don't know I don't think I had given it any other attention up until know, maybe this past summer very seriously is when I, you know, kept seeing things about Germany medicine and, um, you know, it was one of those experiences where something really resonates.
Chris: And it was like, okay, I'm going to go all in on this. And, um, yeah, so that's kind of how I got to where I am today. My chiropractic practice is very much. Meant to be, um, serving and supporting the principle of chiropractic as it was originally intended and recognizing it and acknowledging the, the vital life force and the innate intelligence within.
Chris: So, um, 2 are very resonant and go hand in hand together. And, um, yeah, I've been just kind of slowly integrating the language and the framework of German medicine into my practice recently. So,
Ellen: Cool. Awesome. Yeah. And, and within your bio, as I was kind of reading it, I noticed the kind of vitalist, um, language. And I'm curious if you could shed some light for the listeners, kind of like what that principle or, um, ideology, um, is. Like how, how that is factored into your practice and how you utilize that as a tool.
Ellen: What is it for people who don't know?
Chris: Well, it's, uh, it's funny and it's also kind of sad that I even have to the acknowledgement that I'm a vitalistic chiropractic because chiropractic is inherently vitalistic and most chiropractors don't, um, recognize that piece of it. So I, that's part of why I put it in there, but. Vitalistic or vitalism really just refers to the acknowledgement that there's this vital life force within all animate things. traditionally in chiropractic, this idea that the, you know, the nervous system is the primary conduit through which this vital life force works. And that's not necessarily unique to chiropractic.
Chris: You hear that in yoga and a lot of the kind of spiritual or, um, subtle. Paths or practices of the East. And so chiropractic has a very similar understanding. And, um, for me and how I've oriented myself to Germany medicine so far, it's like, okay, these are both beautiful vitalistic orientations or vitalistic understandings for how the body works and how really how life works and how we experience orient ourselves to life. Um, and so in terms of, you know, working as a, as a chiropractor and a practitioner, it's really interesting. It's because I'm not anything to, to people. I'm not, um, trying to fix them. I'm not trying to, you know, allopathize them. It's very much. ultimately bringing attention back to this kind of central that's within all of us.
Chris: And it happens through attention. It happens through movement, through breath, and kind of using a combination of all of those things and the adjusting process to help facilitate that connection, you could say. Yeah,
Ellen: Cool. Yeah. Thank you for describing that. Um, yeah. And I'm curious how it's been for you learning GNM. And, and, um, I, I imagine as you've been learning it, you've been kind of like, Incorporating it, using it as kind of like a lens through which to see the patients that come your way. Um, yeah. What that process has been like for you and, and, and how it's been to learn this tool.
Chris: for sure. I think, there hasn't been much of an unlearning process. I find that to be pretty common for people that I've shared this, this work with. there's a lot of unlearning that has to happen. And for me, a lot of this has felt like, um, truth just like off the bat, you know, I started learning about the five biological laws back this past summer and it was like, Oh yeah.
Chris: Okay. That makes perfect sense. All the way through. And it was, it was very, it was very, um, easy for me to feel into those and to also have direct experience with them. I think that's been my biggest thing so far is like, okay, how can I take this information and then. it and have an experience with it so that it's not just a theory or concept, right?
Chris: I think that is pretty common in the health space is like all this information, but no Practicality and so that's really been my biggest Job that I've given myself is like, okay, how? Experiential can I make this for myself and then the clients that I see my chiropractic practice like really starting to develop Almost like a case study load or like to have these kind of check in moments where it's like, okay.
Chris: Does this match? the laws or does this match what Dr. Homer came up with? And so far it's been very, I mean, very direct, very specific, very like on point with the majority of the people that I work with. And, um, of course those have been very brief interactions so far, but, um, all of it's felt very clean.
Chris: It's felt very easy. I, you know, in chiropractic school, we have a. A pretty big physiology course load. And so it's, it's been quite easy to take the information and learn it. But, um, guess from a principal standpoint, it's been very smooth so far. Yeah, yeah.
Ellen: it's interesting having these conversations in the podcast and then just with like fellow, um, practitioners that I know, um, when the conversation comes to Derma New Medicine, GHK, I do find that there's this resonance of like, Oh yeah, that makes total sense.
Ellen: And, um, for me as someone like my professional background is in nursing and, uh, worked for kind of many years in the allopathic model. I just like always, I just always felt that there was something missing. There was a piece of the puzzle that we were not addressing that was not, I mean, there's a lot that's missing, I think.
Ellen: Um, but. Yeah, like, the psychological piece, like, why is, why is this being completely ignored and, um, I'm really grateful that, you know, while I haven't personally studied or taken any courses in GHK GNM, um, I love the exposure that I'm gaining through this platform, through the collective, and then through being able to have these conversations with people like you who are studying it, um, and just the impact of, you know, like utilizing, for instance, with you in chiropractic, utilizing kind of like different multi, multi tooled approach to, um, the work that you do with people.
Ellen: Um, so I'm just curious, like kind of what your chiropractic practice looks like, um, how you envision and, and what you're excited about, how you're excited about utilizing this tool within your practice.
Chris: Yeah. Um, I think for one, I would say that I, I probably practice much differently than 95 percent plus of chiropractors. And that's not saying that I'm better or worse or it's right or wrong or anything like that. But. Um, I've really taken to heart the attempt to apply kind of its original principles and practice and working with people. And for me, it's like, gives me a very specific way of bringing attention to somebody's lived experience, right? There's like, you hear about this, I think, in kind of the somatic world, this like kind of bottom up experience, right? When you're getting into the body and you're having this embodied experience or like. Kind of feeling into certain things and for me, chiropractic is, does a really beautiful job in doing that. And so G and M just almost compliments it in the way that we're, we're working from the top down, right, where we're kind of bringing this conscious attention or conscious awareness to what we're feeling in our bodies and then matching it to maybe our, our lived experience. something in the past or something more recently and then connecting the dots. And
Ellen: Yeah,
Chris: so I think that's a really, for me, that's a vision that I hold for all of my people. It's like, okay, well, how do we, how do we come into more authenticity? How do we come into more living innately, right? Living from the heart. And, um, far, I found that the two, the two together does a really nice job in supporting that.
Ellen: that's beautiful. Um, and yeah, the, the evolution piece is really interesting, and that's something that I've touched on in previous episodes, like the, um, Um, You know, the option often is like, either you just continue on the, on the path of suffering and like, kind of spiraling in your own. Mess or like you, you are able to evolve and, and sometimes that, you know, the psyche piece isn't always accessible to people.
Ellen: So I love that you brought up the somatic approach as well, because this, you know, through, through the tissues, through our physical body, we can. You know, it can bring up to the surface some things that have happened to us in the past in, in the experiences that we've had prior to, you know, whatever moment that we're in.
Ellen: Um, so I love that as well.
Chris: Yeah, it's, uh, I love the saying. It's like once you, once you see something, you can't unsee it. And so for me, it's like, this is a really nice way of helping people see something
Ellen: Yeah.
Chris: And then that's where the radical responsibility piece comes in. It's like, then they, once you have an awareness of something, it's your choice to, step into something that's different or to, like you said, kind of continue into that, that same patterning.
Ellen: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Awesome. Um, yeah, I'm curious for you if you've had any, um, of your own, like, lived experience of, like, the application within your own life, or what you've observed in how this tool can be helpful. Um, yeah, just like, like, kind of the story piece, like, what stories have you observed or experienced yourself, um, within this framework?
Ellen: Mm
Chris: trying to embody was stink conflicts and sneezing I think that's a very easy one that people can get it's like You have an experience of something literally stinking or sucks, or I'm fed up with this. And then moving into that, that healing phase or the epicrisis and having the sneeze like directly afterwards, it's almost, me, it's the easiest one to describe to people on that, that people can get. So for me, was a big one. Um, I think another one that I had pretty quickly afterwards was I was going on a walk down the street and, um, I personally very, very strongly dislike buzzing bugs.
Chris: Like, I don't, I don't know why it's just like. That's always been my thing. And I was walking, I had my headphones in, I was listening to something all of a sudden, I think it was a bee, flew right by my face, like right across the top left side of my forehead. I had a little like kind of momentary reaction and then continued on with the walk. I woke up the next day with a pimple right, literally right where it grazed. And I don't, I don't get pimples ever. Um, so that was a very like lived experience of the quote unquote kind of attack conflict scenario.
Ellen: hmm. So I'm going to take a minute to explain the definition of the term, uh, transcript. So, um, transcript is the abbreviation of the term, uh, transcribe. And uh, transcribe is a form of the form of, uh, uh, transcribing a text in a form of text. So, uh, transcribe is a form of transcribing a text in a form of text.
Chris: I, uh, I did a pretty lengthy sub stack post on this, just kind of like breaking it down, but I can, I can briefly share about it. I, uh, I was in a coffee shop. On a Monday morning and I've had quite a few big like decisions to be made in the past couple of weeks. I have some transitions here in Dallas and with my apartment and, um, trying to launch some of these GM offerings and have quite a bit on my plate. And it was one of those mornings where I was just kind of feeling the weight of it all. And so I could feel my
Ellen: are you? I think you're on mute Um, No, uh, yeah, I'm on mute. So when you're on mute like that, I think it, I think that you're on mute. Um, how are you? I, I'm good, thanks. I'm a little nervous right now because, I've been, you know, having the emergency room ring ring, and you know, I'm nervous to speak because, I, I can't, I've never really I've never really done this, I just spit in my mouth.
Ellen: This is actually pretty good for me. I think it was four or five shots waiting for the ambulance to come.
Chris: Came back in, made like a little game plan and, um, over the course of like the next two or three days, I had called some people, got clarity, felt like really, really solid, like I had resolved something, like felt a lot of relief about the whole situation and kind of what I was, what I was feeling Thursday comes up, um, I started to feel a little bit of inflammation in my left upper eyelid left.
Chris: I've never had a side before anything. I related in my life that I can recall, it started having a little bit of like redness and kind of some, some dry feeling in my, in my left upper eyelid. Friday comes around. Um, started to swell up a little bit. Saturday comes around. I was actually hosting another genome 1 on 1 class in my space.
Chris: My eyelid was like. A third of the way closed. It was so swollen. Went through Saturday. It felt kind of about the same. I woke up Sunday and my upper, my upper eyelid, it was maybe 75 percent down. So I could barely see out of my left eye. Um, super swollen, super inflamed, itchy, a little nodule kind of on the inner part of my eyelid on the top part. And.
Ellen: Okay. Okay. And I'm going to try to make them as little as I can. And if any of those on the right are users of my very own tool and have any questions, uh, for your program, uh, let me show you, uh, my, uh, my results. Let me show you this. I'm going to try to do this a little bit faster. Because you're already seeing it on the screen.
Ellen: Um, so this is the uh, uh, Here's the um, uh,
Chris: and so kind of it up to, um, like a, a, a visual separation conflict, which would have covered the, the skin of the, of the upper eyelid, as well as a visual morsel conflict was kind of what I, what I decided it was because of the night sweats and of other things that ended up coming up.
Chris: And, um, yeah, so. Cool. I don't know, for me, when things come up, I, I don't have a, like a big kind of emotional reaction or make a drama out of it. Or I feel pretty neutral when any kind of symptom or healing expression comes up now. So for me, what I guess the biggest thing that's come up in these examples is like, I have really used it as a way of getting in touch with myself and where my, my little leaks are, you could say,
Ellen: Mhm.
Chris: but those are three that come up off the top of my head. I, I probably have a few that if I look back, like retrospectively. Over the past, I don't know, 10, 15 years, I could probably come up with some, but, those have been some more recently my practice. Um, let's see, I think, uh, you know, people commonly come into chiropractic for back pain, headaches, neck pain, et cetera. I get some of that. That's not my primary kind of clientele, but I do get some of that every now and then. And, um, I think one that, that sticks out is, uh, low back pain and this woman kind of having off and on pain.
Chris: And then she, this, these like cycles of having a blown disc or like a disc going out or something like that. And, um, I think kind of in my early stages of studying, I, I was asking her questions and A lot of it having to do with not feeling supported, feeling like she could ask for support, which would kind of cover the self devaluation piece of like, I'm not good enough to ask for support or for help or whatever. And another another kind of nuance. That I've picked up with that and a couple other people just like life path stuff, like not feeling like I'm on the right path, which I know is kind of connected to a couple other programs, but that does seem to be kind of a common, like, there's some kind of self worth, self esteem, self value thing when it comes to not being able to figure out my own kind of. Way. Um, so that's been kind of an interesting nuance that has come up for sure. Um, yeah, those are some that that just kind of come to mind.
Ellen: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's I'm sure like while learning G and M. You know, like having a new framework, like somewhat new framework to like, understand, I mean, truthfully, like, the beauty of this tool is that it feels like it's, it's an opportunity for greater self awareness, like, of what's actually happening up here and Being reflected in the symptoms that are arising.
Ellen: And, um, for some of the people in my life who I really honestly brought me to this tool and like shared it with me,
Chris: Right.
Ellen: be described from most, um, you know, doctors that I would see or like within allopathic medicine.
Ellen: And, um, you know, this is, this is the tool that's really brought a new level of awareness to my. You know, conscious mind of like, okay, what's actually going on? What is being triggered? What, you know, what isn't being resolved within my life? Um, and you know, it's, I've heard from a variety of practitioners, both, you know, like having access to the psyche and, and doing that, you know, self awareness work.
Ellen: Or like we talked about. Addressing the somatic experience first and then seeing what surfaces, um,
Chris: Absolutely.
Ellen: about the area of medicine or, um, you know, healthcare, if you will, starting to incorporate the awareness of, you know, our psyche and, and our internal experience and how that's reflected in our physical experience and our biological experience as well.
Ellen: So.
Chris: Right. Yeah. Just the, just the ability to have almost like your, your attention muscle grown or flexed. Right. Because I think that's what a lot of this comes down to is just able to hold your attention or like shine, like being able to shine your own flashlight on something so that you can see it for what it is. what I've noticed a lot too, especially in my space, I, I see a lot of people who come from the. medicine space and kind of some of the more holistic trends, I guess, if you will. And I think the biggest thing that can be shifted or that people can be liberated from is like shame or the fear or, this notion that they've done something wrong or like, they've taken the wrong things or that they've done the wrong practices or whatever.
Chris: But you're able to, I guess, just have this framework and connect the dots with. felt kind of things and then your lived experience and then being able just to hold observation or attention or awareness for them. A lot of that stuff just kind of softens or dissipates because you realize that it's not true, right?
Chris: Like, a lot of it's just a story. And so, um, yeah, the, the attention and the awareness and to have the, the internal bandwidth to do those things is really, I think, I don't want to say a trend, but like, you can see it kind of coming to the forefront for sure,
Ellen: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a wild time 2025 on our planet. And so, but also it's like an exciting time because, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of evolution happening for everyone individually and then, and collectively as well. Um,
Chris: right.
Ellen: yeah.
Chris: Thanks.
Ellen: how, um, as you integrate this tool and, and start to like, um, share it with people, um, I can imagine the impact will be great because it's, um, you know, somebody might be coming to you for back pain, little do they know, there might be a lot more uncovered
Chris: That's
Ellen: beneath the back pain.
Chris: That's right. That is certainly the goal. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for all that. Yeah, it's, um, it feels really good to, um, you know, you find, you find something that you feel really connected to and just passionate about, but like really, you know, a piece of your calling. And then it's like, okay, well, how can I, how can I honor that and follow it as far as it'll take you?
Chris: And then, um, You know, share it with people who have the ears to hear it and I don't know, I, I just feel very, very grateful to have kind of upon all of this.
Ellen: Yeah, yeah, totally is your, um, I mean, same, honestly, is, um, is your vision with this tool to primarily incorporate it within your practice? I know you've mentioned that you've taught a couple of like intro to GNM, um, courses, but I'm just curious, like, Yeah, what you feel excited about with, um, moving forward and, and your practice and the work that you're here to do.
Chris: Um, yeah, I, I've, I think I've had held two, two GNM 101 classes in my, in my chiropractic practice, which have been really amazing. so the, I think one is like creating community space. Where we can dive into this stuff that feels very, um, easy and good for me. Like when I, when I think about it and kind of hold a vision for that, it feels very, very congruent. So that's one piece. Um, by the end of March, early April, I'll be launching my own kind of one to one services. I'm still kind of figuring out the verbiage for all of that consulting, whatever you want to say. Um, kind of like dedicated, dedicated attention work through this. Um, and then, yeah, my chiropractic practice just continuing to integrate the language, um, and creating space for, for people to have the, the information and, you know, people come into my space and, you know, they have an agenda or they have an expectation or something, but have. This framework given, given to them, and then they can kind of take with it and, and use it kind of in their own, their own ways, I think, really important for me to, to share with people, you know, you hear, I think, especially, you know, one of my mentors and teachers, Michelle Chatham, she talks a lot about resourcing and being able to resource yourself and to have. right? I think that's probably one of the other greatest gifts that this can give people is true sovereignty and understanding what's coming up in their systems and then, you know, making the choices based on their value systems. Of how to move forward through that. And that feels really, really important to me too.
Chris: So yeah, sharing, sharing the information is definitely a top priority.
Ellen: And I mean, all that, all that you just spoke to, I think is very relevant for, um, this current experience of humanity, you know, like the sovereignty and, and. And really like self empowerment of, you know, like understanding ourselves, having awareness of ourselves and the community piece. Like I love that you're hosting, you know, classes for your community because truly, I mean, the way of the future, in my opinion, is community, um, is having like a way to a network of support wherever we live.
Ellen: Cause you know, the online communities are great. And I, you know, love that we have. the online communities. And, you know, like, I love that there are also resources for people to, um, engage in person with,
Chris: that's
Ellen: um, this information. And, um, and I just get really excited too about, yeah, people practicing this. In person as well.
Chris: yeah, for sure. It's um, I mean, you know, it's like when you can step into a space with somebody and give them a hug and say, Hey, and kind of be in it with somebody else. Not that the virtual thing is wrong or anything like that. But yeah, it's definitely has a different kind of feel to it for sure.
Ellen: And I'm sure we all have new appreciation for it after like, you know, like experiencing 2020, like
Chris: For
Ellen: it just feels like a time where people are, I mean, like the, one of the conversations I was having this morning, um, around GNM is like, when we feel isolated, like that is a huge part of like where biological programs begin is
Chris: right.
Ellen: with that isolation.
Ellen: And so,
Chris: Yeah.
Ellen: Yeah. The community piece is huge, um, in this day and age. And I think everyone is really kind of craving it and longing for it.
Chris: Absolutely. Yeah. And it's cool. It's cool to see people, uh, take action and start to create, create this kind of smaller tribal Communities like that. Yeah, for sure.
Ellen: Yeah. Um, is there much of a GNM community in Dallas? I'm curious.
Chris: It's growing.
Ellen: Cool. Totally.
Chris: um, maybe two to two to three people that I, that I consciously know of who are kind of dedicating themselves to the study. And then, you know, I've. I think in the, in two classes, I've had 20 to 25 people. So it's, you know, people are becoming aware of it.
Chris: There's people that I'll kind of reach out every now and then on Instagram that live in Dallas that are like, Oh, Hey, I've heard about this thing. Yeah. Where can I find more information? So, yeah, it's, it's definitely growing and I, I would imagine it will continue to do so the more that we are able to, to bring it through on social media and kind of in some of these spaces.
Chris: Yeah.
Ellen: Yeah, and that was, I mean, that was a big goal for both me and Sarah and, um, creating the GNM collective is like, the timing felt so perfect. I think people are really ready to learn this information and, and hear this information. Um.
Chris: Yeah,
Ellen: we're all very, a lot of us are primed and ready to be like, Oh yeah, this totally makes sense.
Ellen: Like,
Chris: Yeah,
Ellen: um, it's just, uh, it's, it gives a new awareness and understanding to our experience, which is really beautiful.
Chris: Yeah. And I think it's interesting to notice, you know, when you're thinking about like health trends or like topics that have kind of been in the holistic space, you can see the progression towards this more integrated kind of understanding or awareness of everything, right? Like there's been big trends and like the nervous system work and emotion code stuff and Joe dispenses work and Bruce Lipton's work and.
Chris: Yeah, absolutely. all these people who are, know, pioneers in their own fields and then to have all these people who are really into those things, it's like they're primed for like this full integrated lens and way and way of understanding
Ellen: totally.
Chris: home and together, you know, so, yeah, I don't know.
Chris: It's been, it's been interesting for me to kind of observe and, and watch people come into it.
Ellen: Awesome. Any, um, any closing thoughts or, um, ways that people can find you? I'll include any of like your kind of your links, um, in the show notes, but yeah, curious if you have any closing thoughts, um, for this conversation.
Chris: Yeah. I think if anybody's, if anybody's catching this and they're, they're curious about the one on one class, um, it's going to be a really beautiful opportunity to off the, the lenses of your, of your kind of preconceived notions or preexisting paradigms and to put on these other, other lens and, you know, to come and have an experience.
Chris: And if it resonates with you, then that's great. But, yeah. No, that if it doesn't, that's okay, too,
Ellen: Mm hmm. Yeah,
Chris: but, uh, I think the class is going to be, it's going to be a really great introduction for people who are who are new and and just curious.
Ellen: yeah, yeah. And I imagine there will be space for questions and,
Chris: Oh,
Ellen: um, that type of thing, but I feel really excited to, yeah, to learn from you and to continue to just kind of dive into this information. And, um, I'm really grateful that you're kind of like kicking off our, our series of calls, um, for our community.
Ellen: And, um, yeah, so grateful to be connected to you.
Chris: for sure. Yeah. Thank you.
Ellen: Yeah, you're welcome. Um, so yeah, I'll include all of those links in the show notes. And then, um, if you are catching this before February 24th, um, feel free to check out our website and join our, uh, member space to get access to the call, or you can just purchase, believe there's an option to purchase a ticket just for the call.
Ellen: Um, but also if you join the member space, you'll have access to the recording of this upcoming call and any of the future calls that we do. I think we have some cool topics coming up, including like GNM for Mamas. And, um, we're going to have, um, like an asthma specific call. And then, um, I believe potentially in, in May we'll have one, um, just kind of like on nervous system regulation.
Ellen: So, yeah, thank you so much for this conversation. Um, I look forward to connecting more and I think we'll close with that.
Chris: Thanks for having me.
Ellen: Yeah, you're welcome.